#5Things: This Week in Social

Joey Scarillo: Welcome to the #5Things: This Week in Social. This is the Webby Award-winning podcast that looks at five hot topics from around the world of social data, analytics, content, and tech. To give you the full rundown of what you need to know this week, if you are a marketer, an advertiser, or a creator, or anyone who makes a living using social platforms, then you are in the right place today.
Today back on the pod, we have Ankit Vahia, Grey Health and Wellness's Chief Strategy Officer. Hello, Ankit…

Ankit Vahia: Hey, everybody excited to be here again.

Joey Scarillo: Ankit. Question for you are you a morning person or a night owl?

Ankit Vahia: I used to be a night owl. At this point I just don't think I know anymore 'cause I'm not a morning person till I have coffee. And once I have coffee, I'm a morning person. So, I don't know make of that what you will.

Joey Scarillo: So, there's definitely an “on button” for your morning routine.
Ankit Vahia: Yes.

Joey Scarillo: And we have first timer to the five things, associate data strategist. Katie O'Brien. Same question to you, Katie.

Katie O’Brien: I think I would challenge that and say I'm more of a late afternoon person. You know, the afternoon sun's coming in the window. I'm not for morning or for night, I'd say.

Joey Scarillo: All right, so four or five o'clock is your prime time.

Katie O’Brien: Yeah. yeah. Exactly.

Joey Scarillo: I like that. I like that.
I'm Joey Scarillo and I am very much a night person by nature. But like you, Ankit I am reluctantly a morning person or becoming one at least.
Okay, here are the five things.
First up, Ankit gets into a New York Times report that looks at the effects of social media on a teen's brain.
Then Katie talks Tinder, who is rolling out a new tier of membership for those desperate for love.
Then Ankit Chats Chat, GPT, who now have conversation and image identification abilities, and apparently they're surprisingly good at it.
Then Katie tells us about Reddit - launching an opportunity for moneymaking by turning golden up votes into cash.
And finally, Ankit gives us the need to know about Big Pharma going into TikTok.
Alright, that's the five things. Let's dive right in with the first one.
Ankit tell us about what you learned from the New York Times.

Ankit Vahia: Thanks, Joey. So this was a very interesting article. I think, the idea about what social media's gonna mean for this generation of kids growing up, especially young adolescents, teenagers, kids, just getting to that point it's been a hot topic for a while. No one knows what's gonna happen. This article takes what I actually think is for once a more objective and data and science driven approach towards this. It, it quickly you acknowledges the fact that there's a lot of fear around social media and bullying and the impact and anxiety skyrocketing.
There's mental health related ER visits. But what's most unique about what they say and their perspective is that it's not just social media, but it's at that point in their lives where these brains are maturing. You have these core emotions developing your relationship with your peers, peer pressure, passivity, emotion it's a very interesting time for kids in general. And now you have this first fully digital generation, right? Even if you think about stuff like AI and chat g p T, it's gonna be native to their lives and the way they grow and the way they are going to come to terms with adulthood and relationships and all these things. And what they found is when they started monitoring brain activity, whether it's by imaging monitoring, constant monitoring that, 12-year-olds for example, who frequently check their social media accounts, actually experience changes. In the part of the brain associated with social rewards right lot. There's nothing inherently surprising about that because that's what social media does validates or invalidates things going on with kids and their lives. But what's interesting is there's now There's a move towards this aspect around how social media and the access can actually rewire synapses and the neural makeup and things like that.
Now, there's a lot of study going on. There's a big brain, adolescent brain cognitive development study that the National Institute of Health is undertaking to see actually what's gonna happen with social media over time as kids go into young adulthood from this adolescent phase. But net was tweens in general are obsessing about their social lives and where do you sit in school and the lunch table dynamics and all of it.
So none of that is new. The development is very normal. I think there's perhaps a commentary out there. Oh, kids are, brain development is changing. The development isn't changing. What's changing is the way kids are and the, these adolescent brains are taking in feedback, social cues and how the brain is perhaps reacting to those. And the issue isn't social media per se, but it's that there's, it's so incessant and nonstop. That's the real critical part here, which is I think, a very key takeaway that the kids are the little brains.
The young brains are developing the way they need to, but the feedback they're getting isn't normal. It's just like you go to school, you have something happen, you come home, deal with it, go back the next day, you're fresh. It is nonstop. And I think and I think that's what makes this article interesting.
It's looking at a real objective view of normal brain development and social media being a source of stimuli that has this impact. And I think as marketers, when we look at something like this, when you work in the space, whether it is its retail or c p g, or any of those things to keep in mind that's perhaps something we can exercise in terms of modulating feedback to a specific demographic. If our target audience are these adolescents or adolescent parents, maybe some of the responsibility lies with us with how we want to manage rollout of information. Doesn't have to be 24 hours. Maybe it's gated within a certain timeframe to manage some of that feedback and information that's going to these young brains, which I just think is a new way to look at it.
Where marketers become, you start gating the information based on your audience and how they're gonna cope with it.

Joey Scarillo: That is so fascinating, especially the objective view. Katie, as somebody who studies data, which is oftentimes very objective, what jumped out to you from this report?

Katie O’Brien: I would just echo what Ankit was saying about how it's definitely more honest than what I usually see for these headlines. I'm young enough that kind of growing up and these headlines were about me in middle school and high school.
So, I definitely remember that first wave of. Super fear mongering headlines about Instagram is ruining your child's life and being the child in I didn't find that totally to be I, it was nice to see something that wasn't so shock value know, it broke down the science in a really manageable way. Yeah, and I thought it was honest in the fact that it didn't have a lot of data actually, because there just isn't that much data to be had.
So I was impressed that they weren’t the numbers they had to make sound more stringent or true than it was. Yeah, I thought it was a good article as well.
Joey Scarillo: Yeah. Yeah. That's fantastic. At least you know this. This time around again, like you said, not fear mongering, but just giving “just the facts man”. Just the facts. Alright, let's jump over to an app that we don't talk about, I think nearly enough on this podcast. Katie, you found this headline.
I'm really excited about it. Tell us about what's going on with Tinder. Rolling out a new tier of membership.

Katie O’Brien: Yeah, so this one also jumped out to me because I feel like having listened to this podcast quite a few times, you know, we might as well mix it up. We gotta get out of you know, big few socials So, Looking at Tinder announced really recently, this new tier of membership called Tinder Select.
It's the same as its uh, subscriptions. It's monthly payment, but this time it costs $499 a month, which is the big difference between this tier and the previous tiers, which know, $6 a month, $20 a month, depending how you pay for it. But this time it's really leaning into exclusivity, so it's only accessible to the top 1% of what the app calls its quote unquote, most active users.
What it uses to differentiate those users isn't completely clear, it's definitely called the top 1% for a reason. So, the features that you get with this are the ability to message people who you haven't actually matched with twice a week. And for others to be able to see your un blurred profile, regardless of their subscription status in their likely, prioritization in their grid, and to be able to view and be viewed by the most stock after profiles on the app.
So their kind of a way of making sure your profile is legit. In order to qualify, you have to meet a few standards. You have to list. A few interests you have to have your photos be verified, your relationship intent listed, et cetera. So, Tinder's definitely doing a few things to try and make sure, nobody's getting into this tier that shouldn't be there or that has an illegitimate but I just thought kind of the latest. Major monetary ask for a platform. I know recently on the podcast, I believe was, covered know, announcement that X might be considering having all of its users pay a monthly subscription fee. So this isn't really coming out of the blue or it's just the sheer amount of money that makes this interesting, especially since there are a lot of apps out there you know, the more elite daters like the league. There's Raya. kind of already exist. So it definitely begs the question like, who is asking for this? Who is this for? Why does this exist and what purpose does it actually serve in the Tinder ecosystem?
And you mirroring the idea of the once coveted blue check. It could potentially just be another status symbol kind of free for the buying. Also notable here is that this kind of breaks down the need for mutual consent for conversation on the app, which I would consider a very important thing when online dating, you need to both like the other person's profile in order to have a conversation.
So this is the first time I'm seeing this kind of mutual understanding being broken down where there's only consent on one party side needed to have these conversations. So definitely we'll be out for any potential for preview behavior and how that's gonna be monitored by the app and kind of gonna as far as, quality of experience on the app going forward know, kind of what you sacrifice when you allow people to pay to play for these kinds of things.

Joey Scarillo: Yeah. When you said premium, that really jumped out to me. Ankit. I'm curious what you think of a very premium version of Tinder and what other marketers can take away from such a high tier.

Ankit Vahia: Yeah, it's interesting. So for one, I grew up I guess I, I got married and had relationships outside of the online dating world, which, it is what it is. I'm aging myself. I understand, why not? So just from the outside looking in as someone who hasn't used any of these apps, I think Katie, as you put it, there's like the Ryers and all these premium apps that have been around for a long time.
I'm sure that's stuff that we don't, not the general public doesn't even have access to based on networking and things like that. I think for me, this feels Just purely as a marketer. This is Tinder's expansion strategy. It seems like a bit of an idea balloon is, let's put it out there, because they have this massive database right now, right?
They have all these users. It's the most go-to anywhere in the world. You can get Tinder. They're like, okay, if we have this massive database of people all over the world, You have a premium tier? Let's see if it sticks. Let's see if it sticks in the us. Let's see if it sticks outside of the us and if we can start just simply building upon the equity we have, I would just be curious to see how long and how successful this is and if it lasts, and if this 500 then has a $300 tier as well, or a $250 tier coming in. I think as a marketer, there's some strategist sitting somewhere going, guys, let's give it a shot. If it works. If it doesn't, we don't lose our existing customer base. I don't know, maybe I'm a little too cynical about where this could go, but that's where my head went.
Joey Scarillo: Yeah. So you think they're going with a little bit of a test and learn approach here?

Ankit Vahia: Exactly.

Joey Scarillo: Yeah. That's interesting. We'll certainly keep an eye on it. I love talking about apps that we don't talk about very often. So Katie, thank you for bringing this one to us. Okay, I'll get, let's chat about chat.
G p t, they just launched a conversation and image identification abilities. These features seem to be going really well. Seem to be really good. Talk to us about it.

Ankit Vahia: Yeah, this was actually fascinating, and I think this could low key, be a game changer, especially in things like healthcare. I think just to quickly sum it up, chat, g p t now, I think based on the app and based on a bit of a subscription, has a clear image identification and a conversation feature. I think the key word here being conversation is important. And they divide it into this idea of, there's the mouth and there's the eye. So it's almost bringing to life a very real A version of AI that we've seen in movies and that, every sci-fi dystopian feature has started off as, hey, you, you give them the ability to have a conversation and talk to you. And it's the beginning of the end. So I, think the interesting part is something like this, an article like this is either, oh wow, this is incredible, or Lives are gonna get better, things are gonna get better conversation, the way we look for information. Or it's oh man, let's start building that bunker already, which I think is interesting. I, I think when it comes to the voice aspect of it, it's not like Siri or Alexa. There's a true conversational style and they've actually used sampling of human voices based on sample speech, with voice actors and really tried Just the way chat, g p t and if any, I'm sure we've all used the free version online.
You can have a conversation with the software to help answer any questions. The voice is meant to recreate that very quickly. It's natural voice, Which I think is interesting. And it's also it's also able to have more normal chats, not just about specific topics or, conversations with an end goal in mind, which is perhaps what Alexa and Siri are more known for.
But just talking about things in general. An example that decided is an interesting one about how it explained Pokemon, like the user was a six-year-old. And so it's definitely in its alpha phase. It's in development. It's, it still has that lag. It still has, some issues.
It's not as crisp, it's not as clear, but I think it's important to know this is a machine learning system. It's only gonna get better. It's only gonna get stronger. It's only gonna get smoother. I think the other interesting one is the visual feature, which is, the Google camera has the rudimentary version where you pointed at something, it tells you what it is, where to buy it.
But this is again, action oriented. And I think that's what chat GPT is going to. Become is a solution, a true solution-oriented system, not just a q and a system. For example you know what they cite here is how do you fix a broken hose and or how do I cook this? Or what do I do with it? There's even some examples of how it can be some medical issues, like if it's a rash or something and an injury, it's able to actually either identify it in some way or say, visit a healthcare professional, which, I'll get to that in a second. Has massive implications on all our lives, to be honest.
But there's also fun stuff like tic-tac toe or crosswords where it's still evolving. It's not where it it needs to be, but I think the goal is the system is out. They have the basics in place now. Like everything with ai, it's gonna learn and learn. And become, I think people's go-to for advice along the way. Now, I think it's interesting just very naively speaking how quickly they've gone here. It just feels like last year is when Chad g p t became a thing and everyone's oh my God, it's the best thing ever. And now it's freaking talking and telling you what to do and helping you out as an actual assistant, which is amazing.
But it's okay, at what point does this become a, a. Does this start having a real impact on jobs and work and healthcare and things like that? Just simply put healthcare, this can be misleading, or it can be incredibly effective. And this, now it's gonna come down to the rules and regulations that are put in. Health is always a tricky one. Something that may look like a cyst, could be a tumor, something that looks like a simple cut, could be a bacterial infection. Is AI going to not Talk about any of that. I think that's very important. It's and that's the flip side, but the positive side is can you train something like this to help people cope with things like loneliness and isolation and no one understands me and, bring people along the way.
I think there's just a lot of applicability that we need to figure out, and I think a lot of rules and rules, regulations, things need to be put in place to manage something this potent that can be incredibly helpful. But at the same time can lead people astray very quickly. So I, I think there is a major watch out here.
There's no doubt it's fascinating where it is. Do I think it's the end of the world? No, but it's gonna come down to how well and how responsible open AI is as well in putting this out there. Not just, hey, the more we put out, the better our final sale price will be. But I think there's a bigger humanity play that needs to go in.
And as a marketer, I think this just becomes A very effective way for brand placement. Elevating brand function bringing real world examples to life when something may not just be evident to any of those out there. Whether it be a C P G, whether it be a technology, whether it be an electronic device's, a nice way to bring some of that in. I think a cool thing here is as our population gets older, there's increasing incidence of something like dementia, cognitive dysfunction. Helping people who are, it's hard to help right now. This system could be the future. We could all be aging much better because of this system that's being developed where it could connect us to doctors proactively, point out dangers, help track cognitive development by, you can set up a system that helps you track that.
I could go on and on talking about how I think this could play a very important role in the future of digital health. But yeah, I just, the future's coming in fast.

Joey Scarillo: It is coming fast. It feels like it's coming faster every single week. Katie, what do you think marketers and advertisers can use from these new AI tools? To make our work smoother, better, faster?

Katie O’Brien: I think what immediately jumped out to me, especially when looking in these articles is how open AI is gonna use all of this data they're getting. you know, With AI becoming more they're kind of giving it the eyes and the ears I, I believe they haven't really spoken on their policy as far as the data they gather, like auditory data and visual data, how they're gonna be using So I'm definitely waiting on that and I feel like kind of comes onto people's , Apps in the next couple weeks, they're probably gonna have to release some more information on that. So I'll definitely be keeping my eyes out for that. As far as use cases, I feel visual application is very interesting to me.
Just like maybe more of as a fun exercise and strategy than anything. I do you know, taking pictures of different products know, brand landscapes and stuff the visuals kind of getting the application to describe them you know, just using it as a thought started to you know, what terms and words that the application will use to describe.
Could you know, get some gears turning at the beginning of any strategy process.

Joey Scarillo: Yeah, Katie, that is really interesting. And let's we're certainly gonna keep an eye on all this AI stuff because like we said earlier, it is moving fast and it changes every single day. Alright, let's jump over to Reddit. We love Reddit here, Katie. Thanks for bringing this one forward as well. Reddit launches opportunities for money making by turning gold up. Votes into cash. Everybody loves cash. Who doesn't love cash? Katie, tell us about it.

Katie O’Brien: This new programs called the Reddit contributor program and contributor refers to anything. I thought this was interesting. It's not just the post you make, but I believe it's the comments you make as well. So anything they're terming a contribution. So the way this works is that Redditers can apply and if they're accepted, they can earn some IRL money each For the gold they get on their posts, on their comments, and less directly by the karma they've earned. So it's a little bit of a complicated system here. Simply the more golden Karma one receives on content, the more money one makes but a little bit more nuanced. You have to meet a certain threshold of karma and gold earned in the past year to cash in on any earnings and be qualified.
And there are two tiers if you do qualify. So there's contributors and top contributors and is based on the amount of karma you have earned. And there are different pay rates, which I found interesting. So if you're simply a contributor, you make 90 cents per single gold and top contributors make a dollar.
In order to be accepted for this, you have to be over 18. Living in the US you have to have an account in good standing lasted for over 30 days and you have to complete a verification process for identity. And also interesting is that no N S F W content can receive monetization, I'm assuming, so there's no kind of unregulated only fans economy popping up.
But that is something they made very clear as soon kind of let this information out. I thought of interesting that Reddit was getting in on this creator economy you know, it's been booming on YouTube, Instagram, TikTok for years more recently, launched the idea over the summer verified users can start making a cut of ad revenue.
So this is by no means new, but Reddit of hopping on this trend that we've seen on. All the other socials for a while. But the reason Reddit may be so late to this is that Reddit has a very different purpose and a different vibe than most of the other socials. And there's some concern that this creator economy will change the ethos of the community on Reddit.
I'm not like a super, super avid ready user, but when I do use it, one of the things I like is that I trust what people say on there more than on other applications. 'cause I know they're just saying it because they want to say it. There's nothing transactional and money motivated about it, but that is all going to change.
This community could definitely this based kind of just information sharing for the sake of information sharing and for community building could definitely be easily polluted when the reason for posting something turns into something more transactional and for money. And. It is important to note.
I think that this news comes not long after the much protested April announcement that Reddit would start charging for its a p i, which I believe it did start doing in July. Who knows, like what is to come on this platform? It seems like it's really rapidly changing as far as money goes. So definitely something to keep an eye on you know, definitely something to monitor as far as are the posts on Reddit um, now that there's the potential to earn money on them.
Which is something people have noticed on x I am aware of that.

Joey Scarillo: Yeah, Ankit the Reddit community is an avid one. We know that. Do you think that this entrance into the creator economy will Change behaviors of users, change incentives. And do you think ultimately, it'll ruin Reddit?
Ankit Vahia: I, I struggle with this one because on one hand I, one, I think just from my perspective, I think I. Reddit has always maintained a certain, for lack of a better word, objectivity, and neutrality in terms of what people post. And I, the hope is, I think something like this could further encourage that and encourage more engagement.
If people if people, if the people posting on Reddit continue to stay true to its ethos, I think this is, this could be amazing 'cause you're basically encouraging People to be more active, Redditors and sharers of information and knowledge and all of that. All of that good stuff, which is I think, amazing.
It's a creator economy, but one that's actually driven by substance than just shock value and aha and, being a certain way. But you're right, it could absolutely blow up because if everyone's oh no, you're not thinking content first, you're thinking money first now. That could very much change the sort of fundamental thread of what makes I think Reddit so powerful. But I'm not inherently a skeptic, so I will say I think this could actually be really good. 'cause people, the Redditers will be more willing, and we'll see a payoff for sharing content.

Joey Scarillo: Yes. If there's one thing, we know about Redditors, they will tell us what they think, and so we will know if they like this or if it has ruined Reddit, for sure. Okay, let's jump into our fifth and final thing. Big pharma goes big into TikTok on it. I, this one is all you, my friend. Take it away. I.

Ankit Vahia: I don't think you're right. It's actually called Pharma Talk. 'cause that's the level of engagement for pharma is getting with TikTok. And I'll be honest, I knew pharma's big into TikTok, but it's, it seems more prolific than I could have imagined. And I think what's interesting is this is this fact that people are, people spend 145 minutes a day on TikTok with and open the app 20 times.
So it is an absolute It's a massive opportunity for anyone looking to engage in. The pharma engagement they're getting is not small. It's Bristol Myers, Amgen, Astellas Gilead, the biggest brands in the world to the, in, in the pharma space. The big sort of rivalry right now are between two migraine drugs Nurt Tech and Nurt Tech, which is from Pfizer. Revy. From AbbVie. You've probably seen the Serena Williams. Ads online for the migraine drug as well. And they're big. Going big into big into TikTok to starting, 'cause it's a young audience. It's young women who tend to deal with migraines and that sort of become their primary way I. I think what was interesting here is what kind of really started the big TikTok movement at pharma was a menopause drug from this company called Astellas, which is, one of the big pharmas. And they started a movement, they had a Super Bowl spot this year. And they started the movement really by getting these influencers to talk about hot flashes.

And they have a block, blockbuster drug on their hands. It's the first hot flash treatment. For women who are menopausal, they got 1.8 billion views this year so far, which, and it was only 300 million last year. You are talking about a sixfold increase in engagement of these menopause and hot flash tips that they're putting out there. And I think it comes down to one very simple thing is that TikTok algorithm is phenomenal. It's really able to fine tune and get those audiences in there. And when it comes to menopause, get to those women. Be very specific. And I think that's what advertisers and marketers and pharma companies like. The other thing about TikTok, and I think this is low-key an X factor is there are almost 5 million healthcare professionals on there who are self-identified. So who knows how many are there, who are not self-identifying as healthcare professionals. So it is a very targeted It's a very robust customer base where people are now seeking information.
'cause the engagement is absolutely amazing. Like my 2 cents, this is what I think Facebook and Pharma tried to do back for many years and Twitter and they just weren't as effective. And I think TikTok has what it's done. And of course there's the Gen Zs where it's a big playground for everyone. So just from a pure data targeting perspective, TikTok is phenomenal. The engage is amazing, engagement is amazing. But to me the main reason why I think everyone pharma loves TikTok is pharma has always done big tv, and TikTok is video. So it's a very clear translation. You're basically saying it's the same format, it's shorter, it's cheaper to make. And they also have a great, they also give companies the ability to modulate engagement, right? So for example, you can take out comments. So the big issue in pharma and social media is for example, if you are taking say, admin, and you're like, “Hey, Advil gave me a - I took Advil and I lost all my hair, LOL.” From a regulatory perspective, pharma has to take that very seriously. So you will have someone call you, “did you really have the side effect? Is this for real?” And you're like, I'm just messing around. So what? But TikTok, can disable comments. It's just content that people can engage with.

You can avoid side by slide side-by-side placements. The community guidelines are strict. So there's an inherent regulation that makes pharma very comfortable to put more content out there. And that's actually very important. And, at the end of the day, It's one of the few that's perhaps not become like, Elon Musk and x and. Mired in politics and opinions and very divisive. It's just remained fun, and people keep having fun there. And what is interesting is it there's a report that it drives nine times more engagement than Facebook. And people who use TikTok, 73% of them actually have a lot of, have a strong brand loyalty and connection. So farmers like in a competitive world let's do that. And I think as the population ages, drugs become more diverse for different groups. I think TikTok is starting to become that one universal place where everyone has fun.
and you're not engaging out of stress and oh my God, what's this commentary?
Oh man, some. Am I gonna be dinged for being on Twitter? Is my friend gonna, no. Everyone just loves TikTok, and I think they've stayed out of the phrase so far. I think as a marketer it's amazing because the big issue in marketing in pharma is How do you get real people to engage, to bring the brand forward in a very real-world way, and not just your ads that have actors and stuff. And I think TikTok is critical because eventually treatment experience is gonna be a bigger deal than we realize because on all the drugs are gonna be as effective beyond the point. So where does the experience come in? And I think what TikTok does phenomenally well is make that experience very real, very relatable, and I think just we should do more and more TikTok based content out there,

Joey Scarillo: Yeah, bringing the fun back to pharma. What a great playground for like you said, its video based and it's just a
great way for, people to engage and interact with these pharma brands. Katie, I'm curious, the way Onca set this up was it sounds like a perfect match between big Pharma and TikTok.

What do you think? Do you think it is? It's a match Baden online Heaven.

Katie O’Brien: I'm a little bit of two minds about it. I do think there is. Something to having an app that is you know, fun and games. And at the end of the day, pharma is not what I would call fun and games. It's a little bit more serious. There's deeper implications as far as, you know, this isn't you know, a TikTok trend.

This is a. real, A real drug that can do a lot of good or do a lot of damage. So on that side, I'm a little bit tentative, but I do trust that TikTok has a lot of good guidance and restrictions as far as advertising you know, I do feel that I trust. The restrictions made there that they're you know, be promoting anything dangerous or crazy, and they're not gonna allow any misinformation there.
And I definitely agree that with so many medical professionals taking to TikTok to share legitimate information and with more people using TikTok kind of a Google interface. you know, what you do when you look up, I just got diagnosed with X, like, can you tell me about this? It is a very approachable place to find medical information.

So on that side, I definitely think this makes sense for pharma kind of get in there and promote their messaging with that.

Joey Scarillo: This is all very interesting. I love this conversation and I've said this before, but I feel like we could always go on and do a whole other podcast about some of these topics. But that does it for us today. If you don't already, be sure to follow us. Share us. Review us like us. Write to us with your questions, comments, concerns, points of interest or complaints, or just send us a thing you want us to discuss.

You could do all of that by emailing us at. podcasts@grey.com. Connect with us on Spotify by sharing your thoughts on the show. Just look for the q and a field and the topics discussed on this show are written and researched by the social and connections team at Grey New York. With a big thanks this week to our panel, Ankit and Katie.

Katie, join us again. Let's make it a thing. This podcast is produced by me, Joey Scarillo and Samantha Geller with post-production by Amanda Fuentes and Guy Rosmarin at Gramercy Park Studios Marketing and Communication support from Adrian Hopkins, Christina Hyde, and Jada Hines. Listen to the entirety of Season four of Grey Matter, a podcast about ideas. As host Jason Kahner and our Grey colleagues speak to founders, artists, and innovators about the napkin scribble that became their idea. You can find Grey Matter a podcast about ideas. Wherever you find this podcast, that's it for us.

Thank you, listener, and please as always, be social.

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